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So now what, Sanmatar Shakor?

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Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1047	Posted - 2017.05.30 08:33:25 - [1] - Quote This is from another thread, but I figured it deserves its own one. Elmund Egivand wrote: Sincerely, I doubt Sanmatar Shakor's going to change anything, not even this time. Unless the nations, in this case, the Republic, actually starts sending in the Republic Fleet to stabilise the region and put down the foundations for a long-term fortification and settlement plan, it's going to remain a Pendulum. No ***. That does not mean we should not keep on calling for the government to act. It has been said elsewhere, repeatedly, but let's do this once more. The Militia war is by nature a war of attrition. Both sides keep on pouring resources into it, and it is not just indie capsuleer resources, but also government property and Republic ships. The Republic is smaller by far than the Empire, so in any war of attrition, if it runs for long enough, we will lose*. The TLF has demonstrated, now once and again, that we are willing to help make a difference. That is valuable in itself, and no one should belittle the achievement in space. However, unless the government acts, we have won this pendulum tick, but lost the War.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:11:43 - [2] - Quote Quote: As usual, my question then becomes what do you want to see happen? Fair question. As I see it, there are two options *on the government level: 1) Withdraw from the Militia Act and stop the toy war altogether.* I would personally prefer this option. It would allow us to stop pouring resources in the war of attrition and keep open both the option of a (granted unlikely but still) peaceful solution with the Empire and a war (that we actually could win) later. However, not being privy to the exact terms of that international agreement, so I do not know what it would cost us to withdraw. The Empire obviously has an incentive to not let us do that without paying dearly. 2) Stop the toy part and make the push for the Final War now. Now that we control the war zone and the Mary indie forces are scattered and disheartened, push on to the heart of the Empire. Strike them hard enough that we will dictate the terms of peace. Mind you, we will probably lose. My estimate that we cannot win a full-out war against the Empire still stands. What has changed is that if we stay in the current situation, we will lost with even a greater certainty. Since it is unlikely our idiot government will have the guts for either of those, the question remains on what to do about it *on the capsuleer level*. There, unfortunately, our options are limited. The best suggestion I have seen so far is Valentina's above: build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic and prepare for whatever bad future waits us (be it the full-out war, or sheltering the last refugees from the fallen Republic).
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 09:36:56 - [3] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: No, don't shove it under Sanmatar Shakor's nose. He doesn't actually have real power these days beyond Executive Power. Shakor is, however, the one who should be speaking for the Tribes. I feel it is fair to address the question to him.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 10:26:51 - [4] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: He speaks for the Tribes when dealing with those outside the Republic. Otherwise, whatever decision on how to steer the Republic lies with the Seven Tribal Chiefs/Elders of the Tribal Council. I reckon it's best to shove the proposal under all their noses until they get annoyed enough to call for a meeting and discuss the matter. I believe that traditionally it is assumed the Sanmatar's role also was to mediate between the tribes and to speak for the whole tribal council in matters that require tribal consensus. Of course, the whole thing is just a reconstruction from a few old folk tales sold to the masses as The One True Matari Way(tm), so anyone can take whatever approach to what is required of him (how convenient!), but at least how the nomination was advertised to begin with as a "mediator" for the council supports my idea.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1050	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:35:26 - [5] - Quote Who said anything about stockpiling ships? I cannot of course talk for anyone else, but I think you and Val think remarkably similarly on this. When capsuleers - well, at least those who know their business - talk about "resources" they do not tend to mean idle stockpiles of isk.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1051	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:45:36 - [6] - Quote I wasn't suggesting we manufacture anything or that we should stockpile assets. Where did you get that from? I said I liked Val's words. As I see it, she talked about building a capsuleer organization that can provide pilots, skills, ships, isk, when need be. Now you talk about building a capsuleer organization that can provide those when need be. Yet you talk like you somehow disagree with her. But I guess I'll let you sort that out between yourselves.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1051	Posted - 2017.05.30 11:54:35 - [7] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: "build indie capsuleer resources and force such that we can both help limit the effects of the toy war on the Republic" sounded rather different, but allright. I apologize for the unclear wording that caused the misunderstanding. Even if I am a little irked that your interpretation of "resources and force" when spoken by me is "stockpile idle equipment". Quote: The suggestion still stands, but I have a sneaking suspicion it'll remain merely words on the IGS. If memory serves, the last time it was brought up, there was mention of 'treason'. Times change. This time, if it remains idle words, it is because people are more interested in saying "you should do this" than doing it themselves. Which is definitely a possibility.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1052	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:05:11 - [8] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. So this too is a plan that might have worked with Jamyl on the throne. Catiz, however, is not stupid.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1052	Posted - 2017.05.30 12:18:47 - [9] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I was going to make a southerner joke, but instead I'll apologize for unintentionally belittling you. My apologies. No harm intended and no harm done. We are good. I struggle to properly answer the other comments you made. But since the proposed solution I was endorsing and claiming to be the same as your was not even initially mine, maybe I do not need to.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1061	Posted - 2017.05.30 13:21:23 - [10] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: Valerie Valate wrote: Convince the Empress that the war makes no economic sense Unfortunately (for us), the toy war does make economic sense to the Empire. It does? Why? Read the gods-be-damned thread.
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1062	Posted - 2017.05.30 14:23:42 - [11] - Quote What intel is your idea that the Colelie incident was Sebiestor tribe's based on? I was on the field that day, part of the chain of command, and there were Fleet officers of all tribes present. The capsuleer liaison was Heder Elislar, of Brutor Tribe. Information we got about who had ordered the strike were merely that the orders were "directly from the top".
Elsebeth Rhiannon SoE Roughriders Electus Matari 1066	Posted - 2017.05.30 20:23:56 - [12] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: if there isn't at least one system already lost, I'd be very surprised. It's the nature of the beast. Kamela is highest contested, at about 33 percent. It went up to 60+ pretty much immediately after Arzad fell, but has been brought down again. Not that I expect this to last.

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